Comments on: Empty rooms http://dannorth.net/2007/10/09/empty-rooms/ embracing uncertainty Thu, 02 Feb 2012 20:47:07 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.com/ By: Joachim Nilsson http://dannorth.net/2007/10/09/empty-rooms/#comment-7908 Tue, 02 Dec 2008 23:06:03 +0000 http://dannorth.net/2007/10/empty-rooms#comment-7908 Hi Dan
Most books on the subject of requirements analysis tells us to go look for the client need behind every requirement. Have you considered this when using BDD? I myself find the need very useful to 1) get a deeper understanding of what the story is ment to do, 2) being able to categorize (and find contradictions in) stories and 3) setting the sprint goal for my team. Normally the stories I get will not have the basic need, more a translation of that need into what the stakeholder believes he/she wants. Or that writing the basic need will seem to obvious or sound silly.

As a – product manager
I want – better logging in the product
So that – my maintenance staff can find errors more easily

vs

As a – product manager
I want – better logging in the product
So that – the product maintenance cost will be lower
(the connection is not completely clear to all – right?)

I thought about how this would work with the BDD templates. There are probably a bunch of people who can think of a better way but perhaps something like adding “In order to…” after the “So that …”.

As a – product manager
I want – better logging in the product
So that – my maintenance staff can find errors more easily
In order to – make the product maintenance cost lower

It could be solved by simply adding the normal ‘And’ to the ‘So that…’ but then those two lines would be of same importance. And to me there is a big difference between a basic need and a experienced desire or wish.

Comments anyone?

]]> By: Colin Jack http://dannorth.net/2007/10/09/empty-rooms/#comment-7907 Sun, 24 Feb 2008 14:07:25 +0000 http://dannorth.net/2007/10/empty-rooms#comment-7907 My view is BDD is interesting but the documentation out there is often contradictory and doesn’t necessarily answer my questions. In particular as someone learning about BDD I’d have found it useful if someone had documented the relationship between BDD and the following:

1) Need-driven Development or even just outside-in design.
2) Ubiquitous language.
3) User stories.
4) Different levels of testing (so for example is using plain old TDD when you get to implementation levels valid).

I did a brain dump of some of my initial confusion, mainly so that I can refer to it when trying to remember where to go for material on BDD (http://colinjack.blogspot.com/2008/02/bdd-what-still-confuses-me.html).

]]> By: Jean-Michel http://dannorth.net/2007/10/09/empty-rooms/#comment-7906 Tue, 13 Nov 2007 11:09:03 +0000 http://dannorth.net/2007/10/empty-rooms#comment-7906 Monsieur Dan, votre flux RSS ne semble pas marcher avec Netvibes … Cela fait 1 mois maintenant, tu as une idée?

]]> By: Wesley Walraeve http://dannorth.net/2007/10/09/empty-rooms/#comment-7905 Mon, 15 Oct 2007 15:29:41 +0000 http://dannorth.net/2007/10/empty-rooms#comment-7905 Ah no, another 3 letter IT-term: “BDD”…

Business Driven Development, an evaluation of TDD. I think it comes from the Java world, from JBehave…

]]> By: Wesley http://dannorth.net/2007/10/09/empty-rooms/#comment-7904 Mon, 15 Oct 2007 15:16:45 +0000 http://dannorth.net/2007/10/empty-rooms#comment-7904 Maybe it’s because a lot of people are not using or understanding TDD yet. And who is always interested in evolutions.
And maybe a more important question these days “What does it cost? Or how much extra income $$$$ does it bring?”. Will I have a better revenue by doing BDD instead of TDD?
Is the customer willing to pay for longer development? Is the developer willing to learn a new DD while there’s already a lot of new stuff? Is this comming from a big community or is it a one man show?

]]> By: Marcus Ahnve http://dannorth.net/2007/10/09/empty-rooms/#comment-7903 Fri, 12 Oct 2007 13:50:41 +0000 http://dannorth.net/2007/10/empty-rooms#comment-7903 It is my impression that the old-school TDD and OO community is a little stagnant. THe fact that there is virtually no mentioning of RSpec et al on the TDD mailing list says a lot.

]]> By: Joe Ocampo http://dannorth.net/2007/10/09/empty-rooms/#comment-7902 Wed, 10 Oct 2007 03:30:40 +0000 http://dannorth.net/2007/10/empty-rooms#comment-7902 Hey Dan,

Let me know how you session goes. I convened a BDD session at Alt.Net conference where I demoed NBehave. The attendees had mixed emotions about it since we really got into a heated debate on implementation of BDD. Kind of left feeling like we did more harm than good but the next day I attended an “Excutable Requirments” session that Jeremy Miller had convened. I was asked if I could demo NBehave to see if it could fill some of the weaknesses that Fit has left in the community. This is were NBehave shined . I had mentioned that this wasn’t the silver bullet to end all our issues but more a step in the right direction.

When you have time I would love to compare notes on what feedback you are getting in the Java community.

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